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扩展记录:霍华德斯特恩

在接受记者Tracy Smith采访的“星期天早晨”的扩展记录中,广播巨头霍华德斯特恩开放了他的父母和妻子,精神分析,为他过去的采访道歉,在SiriusXM卫星广播上的自由,以及他说,这次采访正在消失。


霍华德斯特恩:我母亲对我说,我说,“妈妈,明天我正在和哥伦比亚广播公司星期天早上谈话。”她说,“你为什么不告诉我你在电视上?” 我走了,“不,不,不。” 我试图向她解释它是事先录下来的。 (笑)

特雷西史密斯:所以,你的前两本书是畅销书,他们创下了唱片。

斯特恩:他们做到了。

史密斯:现在你说,“扔掉他们”?

斯特恩:是的,是的,这是新书中的信息。 首先,我没想到会写一本新书。 你知道,我完成了书籍,书籍世界。 他们是折磨。 他们花了很多时间,我实际上对这些事情进行了大量的思考。 但我看了我的最后两本书 - 就像我不能真正听我的旧电台节目一样,这很难。

史密斯:你不听他们的话?

斯特恩:不,永远,我不能。

史密斯:为什么?

斯特恩:因为我觉得那是我很久以前的事了。 我的介绍不同。 就像,你能看一些自己的旧照片吗? 我的意思是,我的一些发型,我看着那些,我走了,“我在想什么?”

史密斯:但它比那更深。

斯特恩:是的,嗯,这对我来说非常困难。 我畏缩。 前几天我正在告诉某人,因为现在我正在推销这本书,我要出去做深夜演出。 而且我不喜欢接受采访,我不喜欢参加深夜演出。 对于采访的人,我不喜欢它。 因为这本书,我很兴奋,我决定做所有这些新闻。 所以你知道,在看着我的生活时,突然之间这是一次大回顾,这是非常困难和痛苦的。 回去看旧节目很难。

我看着身上 ,我正在畏缩。 只是,我的演讲是不同的。 这对我来说就像一个不同的人。 如果我在我的职业生涯中做过任何事情,我一直在进化。 我不觉得我曾经保持不变。 所以当我回去看看那个,或者我看看我的旧书时,并不是说它们太可怕了。 这是我现在不会做的不同之处。

霍华德 - 斯特恩特雷西 - 史密斯在 - 他的工作室 -  620.jpg
霍华德斯特恩在他的SiriusXM卫星广播电台工作室,与“星期天早晨”记者特雷西史密斯。 CBS新闻

史密斯:有什么不同? 是什么让你畏缩?

斯特恩:我的旧书中有些东西我认为对我的个人生活有害,而且我不知道,有时是诚实......是不是有一首歌,“诚实太多了”? [Dan Some Hill的 。]现在我的表现并非如此。

但这就是我喜欢我的职业生涯,一直以来批评者会说,“好吧,他会持续一年,因为他一遍又一遍地做同样的事情。而他所做的一切都是令人震惊的人。” 不管它是什么,如果你回头看看这些报纸文章以及我所做过的不同事情,他们总会说:“好吧,他是昙花一现。” 现在已经过了40多年了,而且我认为最棒的是我从来没有保持不变。 该节目已经发展。 这是一个完全不同的节目,而不是我十年前的节目。 这就是因为SiriusXM和此举,这是我做过的最聪明的事情,你知道,远离政府干预。 即使这很有趣,我的意思是,我摆脱了政府干预,所以人们以为我会来到这里,这将是这个星球上最出色的节目。

史密斯:是的,那你就完全被X级了。

斯特恩:是的。 不,那太无聊了。 我在书中写到这一点。 那里没有什么可以反对的。 在地面电台做一名野人的好处是政府和宗教团体反对我。 我喜欢它,我喜欢这个动作,我喜欢它的无耻。 我喜欢我们现在看到很多他们的所有伪君子,陷入性丑闻的宗教领袖,政府人员,政府人士的虚伪,他们当时陷入了各种各样的蛮横和贪污之中,这个和那个,谁对收音机上的内容如此关注。 然后你在幕后发现,他们是完全伪君子。 这让我感动。

但是当我到这里时,我不得不重新考虑整件事,我说,“我想做什么?” 并且不要误会我的意思,我仍然喜欢在二年级做屁人和笑话,节目中有很多。 但是这种形式让我能够以一种全新的方式进行我认为是一些深思熟虑的访谈和一些有趣的事情。

史密斯:我想在一秒钟内谈谈你在书中所包含的采访。 但首先我想回到这个变态的想法,这个想法,你不喜欢看那么多的旧作品。 你在书中说你最大的遗憾之一是罗宾威廉姆斯。

斯特恩:是的,有很多遗憾。 我生命中发生了一堆事情。 我进入了心理治疗,我是他的支持者。 我的生活陷入危机。 我离婚了。 我有三个女儿,我很担心,现在的生活是什么样的? 我自己怎么一个好父母? 我需要好好看看自己。 我觉得我的人际关系没有意义或深刻。 我以为自己过于自我,我担心自己的幸福。 所以我想要更充实的生活。

有人向我建议了一个名叫John Sarno博士的人,他写了一本关于背部疼痛的书。 这是 。 我和萨诺变得非常友好,我是他的大门徒。 他不再和我们在一起了,但他告诉我,“你需要进行心理治疗。而且你需要一位男性心理治疗师。” 我就像是,“好吧,为什么?我不明白。” “相信我,你有爸爸的问题,你知道,你需要和一个男人在一起,你需要了解成为一个男人的感觉以及如何融入社会,如果你得到的话摆脱背部疼痛,以及你是否会健康。“

所以,我开始了这个过程,所以开始发生了。 而且这个过程不仅对我有用,而且它不仅教会了我这么多,而且我不仅感觉好多了(而且我还在心理疗法中),正如我在书中所描述的那样,主要的外卖是实际上,我生来第一次感受到被另一个人听到的感觉。

史密斯:那之前你没有感觉到过的声音?

斯特恩:不,我没有。 即使我和数百万人交谈,我也感觉不到。 我正在谈论当我第一次坐下来的时候,我第一次和这位精神科医生坐在一起,而且我一直和同一个人在一起,我坐在这里,然后我走了,“让我告诉你我的情况父母。” 因为我认为这就是你在心理疗法中所做的,你谈论你的父母。 我开始做惯例,然后我闯入我的母亲,然后我说:“听着,你必须表现自己,你必须要有生活规则。” 然后我开始给我父亲留下一个印象 - 这就是广播杀人的东西。 我这样做是为了谋生。 而且我从中得到了很多笑。 而且他坐在那里,我就像, 这个家伙有什么关系? 我现在正在杀人。 他说,“这一切都没有什么好笑的。为什么你觉得你必须招待我?” 这是我在平静下实际听到的第一次体验。

我以前从来没有和男人发生这种关系。 所以,这对我来说都是令人兴奋的东西,我发现它很有用,很有帮助,真的只是现象。 在写这本书的时候,我想在听到之间建立联系,然后能够与其他人坐下来听他们 所以,这就是为什么我认为的采访变得更加深刻。

史密斯:那么在过去,你看过你的面试题目......?

斯特恩:我看不见。 我看到他们是一个烦恼和阻碍他们的人。 这就是我写的关于罗宾·威廉姆斯,吉尔达·拉德纳,甚至卡莉·西蒙的内容,他可能会说她在我的节目中度过了愉快的时光,但我感到不满意。 因为当你在地面电台上,你就像我一样渴望成为第一,并且我在很多市场中排名第一时,会想到与一个有名的人坐下来这对我来说是令人兴奋的。听众。 但我所做的只是脱口而出,你知道,“告诉我你的性生活,”“当你对沃伦比蒂说什么感觉,”或者你知道,这样的事情。 有人喜欢这样。 但会发生什么,它不会导致任何有意义的事情。 我作为一个无线电家伙计算的是,“我可以拖你多少个四分之一小时?我能让你听多长时间?”

在收音机上获得高收视率的诀窍不仅是拥有很多听众,而且还要保留他们的兴趣。 这成了我的痴迷。 所以,如果我有你在节目中(你是罗宾威廉姆斯),你停下来给我讲故事,我一直在看时钟。 我不是在看你,也不是在听你,我正在看时钟,然后说:“天啊,人们正在调整。罗宾的谈话时间太长了......”我没有正确的想法给某人一个适当的面试。

当我回顾那个时,我可以畏缩,因为我喜欢罗宾威廉姆斯,我是罗宾威廉姆斯的粉丝。 但那是让我在心理治疗方面开辟了一条道路的东西。 我说,“为什么我不欣赏这些人?这些人是我喜欢和爱的人,他们走开的印象是我不关心他们。”

所以你知道,那里有很多工作要做。 但后来转向SiriusXM,我遇到了不同的情况。 如果你现在想和Robin Williams一起听我说话,你可以坐下来听。 如果你没有,你可以转到另一个频道。 这是解放。 我可以和罗宾威廉姆斯进行有意义的交谈,坐在那里与他交谈,不用担心。 因为如果你感到无聊或者你无法处理罗宾威廉姆斯的听证会,你可以调到咖啡店频道,或者不管它是什么。 所以这变得很自由,很棒。

史密斯:回到罗宾威廉姆斯的事情,你想道歉,但你没有机会。

斯特恩:我和几个人一起做过,我向几个人道歉。 这就是我所说的畏缩,这就是为什么我不能回去听那些东西。 写这本书很痛苦,因为我确实一直回去看看我在做什么,而且我不得不经历成千上万小时的采访,这是疯狂的。 这让我很疯狂,因为我不想坐下来听很多这些东西。 这是一项艰巨的任务。 因此,就罗宾威廉姆斯而言,这真是太糟糕了,我并没有打电话给罗宾威廉姆斯说:“哦,回到节目中。” 那不是我的意图。 我想打电话给他,它突然袭击了我 - 而罗宾威廉姆斯并不是唯一的例子 - 但我想打电话给他并说:“听着,我是你的粉丝。你进了我的工作室,我很疯狂。我没心情去做你的采访,你进来这么开放,准备好表演,应该已经庆祝了。我没有庆祝你。相反,我正在向你询问是否与你的保姆睡觉。“ 这导致他吵了起来,我们没有看到他的任何光彩,这太可怕了。 “这让我心疼。而且我想为此道歉。” 一天早上我醒来时说:“我会以某种方式掌握他的电话号码,或者至少是一个我可以写信给他的地址,并以真诚的方式告诉他。” 我没打电话说,“回到空中。” 我真的没有坐在那里征求意见。 我只是想告诉他我有多抱歉。 奇怪的是,那天早上我对我的妻子说:“我要接受这个。” 然后我相信无论是那一天还是第二天,无论如何,但他自杀了。 我从来没有机会道歉。 我只是希望我能拥有,你知道吗? 有些人还在我身边,我曾对他们说:“我没有按照正确的方式行事。”

史密斯:有多少道歉?

斯特恩:也许我打电话给十个人,15个人,然后说。 有些人非常亲切。 我被一个人吓了一跳,一个电台的家伙对我说,“我很高兴听到。”因为你知道,我真的很伤心,因为你心里对我有这么多的仇恨。 “

我说,“这不是仇恨。我的情况是我必须拥有每一个电台听众。我必须为自己拥有一切。” 这就是我在Rosie O'Donnell的书中描述的,他已经成为了一个非常好的朋友。 并不是因为我讨厌罗西,事实上我很钦佩她,但是在电视台或收音机上的任何人都有粉丝,这对我来说是不可思议的。

我是幼稚的,自恋者,我希望每个人都听我说话。 当我在地面电台时有一位节目主管,他们说,“你知道,纽约长岛高速公路上每四辆汽车中就有一辆是美国最大的市场,它会调到你的身上。” 我只能想到,有三辆车没有听我说话!

史密斯:你刚想到了其他三个。

霍华德 - 斯特恩说到,再次-西蒙和舒斯特盖-244.jpg
西蒙与舒斯特

斯特恩:是的,我被消耗了。 我走了,“那怎么可能?我正在做革命性的,突破性的收音机,有三辆车不关心!” (笑声)这就是让我疯狂的原因。 如果你过着那种被收视率消费的生活,你知道吗,有四分之一的汽车? 你应该庆祝,你应该在街上跳舞。 长岛高速公路上每四辆车就有一个出口调到我身上,你应该跳舞吧。 但我不是在跳舞; 我很悲惨,因为这三辆车没有听。 所以,如果我收听并看到Rosie在日间电视上取得成功,你知道,没办法。 那不可能。 她怎么会有成功的? 那些人必须被调到我身边。

所以这就是我的生活方式,这不是一种健康的方式,我不推荐它。 而且你不需要那样在收音机里。 但那就是我需要的,你知道吗? 我需要被听到,所以这很古怪。

史密斯:你现在开心吗?

斯特恩:我现在好开心了。 是的,我现在很高兴。 但是我的妻子,可怜的女人,我觉得我的妻子非常爱我,我非常爱我的妻子。 但有时我会说,“哦,她怎么能忍受我?” 因为我可以 - 我仍然很悲惨,你知道,这里还有一个愤怒的家伙。 但是我已经学会了与他交谈,并且有点和他住在一起,你知道吗? 你不改变心理治疗; 你了解你内心发生了什么,并学习如何分类控制它。 这就像是不可思议的绿巨人。 现在,你正在和Bruce Banner博士谈谈,看到了吗?

史密斯:但是绿巨人还在那里?

斯特恩:好在这里,是的!

史密斯:09:11:02所以这就是事情,所以治疗显然是这种变态的一部分,是吗? 但还有什么呢? 为什么你认为名人对你开放?

斯特恩:我认为他们会发生什么 - 我花了很多时间思考这一点 - 我的整个职业生涯都是关于诚实,痛苦的诚实。 你知道,阴茎大小,不安全感,我讨厌我的样子。 就像现在一样,我很清楚这款相机,我戴上了眼镜,看起来很恐怖。

史密斯:你没有。

斯特恩:是的,好的,谢谢你,但我有这种感觉。 因此,当人们走进来时,我认为这种诚实,他们觉得可能会打开他们的期望。 但我认为,如果有的话,广播和采访的真正伎俩,因为采访的艺术有点死亡。 在播客时代,这是一个奇怪的事情,因为每个人都在采访其他人。 但我正在谈论的采访,一直追溯到爱德华·R·默罗,正在让大众观众收听并感到兴奋,并继续关注那次采访。 那是另一种艺术。

有一个播客,只是和你的朋友聊天可能不一样,因为有数百万人挂在某人的每一个字上。 它必须以某种方式制作,必须有计划参与。 但我也认为这些采访有一种罕见的品质,人们会忘记他们在收音机里,这就是关键。

而且我不一定要看那个“陷入困境的时刻”,或类似的东西。 但我正在寻找真实的东西。 我在精神科医生办公室听到的方式就是我希望客人感受到的方式。 就像前几天一样,我有Seth Rogen和Charlize Theron,他们非常棒,我们只是进行了一次非常轻松的谈话,就像晚餐谈话一样。 但突然之间出现了一些转变,每个人都感到舒服。 查理兹能够为她谈论一个非常可怕的“我太”时刻。 在她的职业生涯早期,她描述了大约18岁并参加她的第一次试镜。 而这位制片人,非常杰出的制片人,她走到他家,那是在晚上,他穿着睡衣回答了门。 无论如何,这太可怕了,我真的觉得她。 在那种有趣和轻浮的过程中,事情变得轻松,可以谈论这一点。

合作

这就是我在书中庆祝采访的原因。 我对格温妮丝·帕特洛非常感激,我一直指着这一点,我为此感到自豪。 格温妮丝来了,我们正坐着谈话。 现在,在地面广播的旧时代,我会像这样看着墙上的钟,说:“哦,我必须得到那个四分之一小时的扫描,等等等等等等,她的时间太长了。 “ 不,我们坐着说话。 现在,观众本来希望我说,“哎呀,嘿,你是****你的丈夫吗?你和你丈夫有口交吗?” 好吧,那会让格温妮丝·帕特洛跑出房间。 我们不会知道答案,这可能很有趣! 真的,那是什么? 这真的是你如何接近一个人吗? 这会导致什么吗?

但正如你在书中看到的那样,我正坐着和格温妮丝谈话,我们谈论的是婚姻,她说,“你知道,有时候我会和我丈夫争吵,而且只是这么容易给他。” 我笑得像你一样笑。 我当时想,“哦,她自愿提供这些信息,而不是我推动和强迫它。而只是一个男人和一个女人坐着谈论婚姻的方式非常诚实。这就是为什么我把她包括在书中,不是因为她这么说,而是你对她有这种感觉。

然后这个神奇的事情发生了。 人们开始打电话给我。 这就像立即回应。 天啊,我爱格温妮丝·帕特洛。 当她说无意识的耦合,或其他任何有意识的时候,我从不喜欢她。 恨她,无法忍受她,她现在是我的人,我喜欢她。 我爱她。 Lady Gaga同样的事情。 那些像驴子一样叫我吵架的人, 哇,我要去她的演唱会。 这件神奇的事情让我感动,我喜欢它,人性化[名人]。

这就是我想为希拉里克林顿所做的事情。 这就是为什么我写完整章。 我是希拉里克林顿的支持者,我想让那些无法超越事实的人将她变得人性化a)她是一个女人,b)有些我只是讨厌她的态度。 我想她本可以走进我的工作室并改变自己的想法 - 我不会是个白痴,并说它会改变选举。 但是你知道,我看看几个关键状态下的那些数字,每个人中有几千个人可以为她选择不同的选举团。

史密斯:你认为你可以有所作为?

斯特恩:我想我可以有所作为。 我认为可能会有一种看法改变。 而这种改变本来就是,我不会坐在那里与希拉里克林顿谈政策。 我知道我没有能力做到这一点,也不关心。 我想和她谈谈成为一名公务员。 我想跟她谈谈她的童年,我想跟她谈谈她的决定,她为什么爱上比尔克林顿,为什么她会爱上政治。 我想和两个人坐在一起,与她进行非常人性化的对话。 我渴望它。

我在书中描述,我喜欢写这个,就像我在追逐梦想。 我想说服她以任何方式与我坐下来,因为冒险,与不同的听众交谈,这些风险都没有被采纳。 而且我认为这是对下一组不得不与特朗普抗争的候选人的警告。 而且我知道唐纳德是如何在空中讲话的,唐纳德知道如何沟通。

史密斯:你说他是你最好的客人之一。

斯特恩:他是有史以来最好的客人之一。 为什么? 因为作为一名电台嘉宾,他说自己脑子里有什么流行音乐,他知道怎么玩这个游戏。 不吸引所有人,但它吸引了足够的人,这种风格吸引了足够的人,打开它们。

史密斯:所以,他是一位伟大的电台嘉宾。 你怎么看待他作为总统?

斯特恩:嗯,听着,他让我支持他,我不能。

史密斯:你做不到。

斯特恩:我做不到。 这不是我的政治。 唐纳德和我不同意很多事情。 现在,我已经认识唐纳德多年了。 我从没想过他认真竞选总统。 他第一次宣布他可能竞选总统是书籍推广的一部分,这是一本很棒的书籍推广。 “交易艺术”的销售是因为他在每个谈话节目中都在谈论他可能是总统,但他从未参与过。 第二本书,同样的举动。 这是一个很棒的举动。 第三次,“学徒”开始收视率,他不得不谈判合同。 “让我们竞选总统吧。” 这是获得兴趣的好方法,并且对NBC说,“让我们谈判吧。” 我不认为[它]背后有任何真实的东西。 他认为人们不会接受。 顺便说一句,这是我对这个家伙的认识。 唐纳德一直对我非常亲切和友好。 他让我在共和党大会上支持他,以及所有这些。 我不得不在电话里对唐纳德说 - 这很不舒服 - “我不能支持你。” 从那时起我就没有收到他的消息。

史密斯:你从那以后没有收到他的消息?

斯特恩:不,不,不,不。

史密斯:你们根本不说话吗?

斯特恩:我们根本不谈,不。

史密斯:你有没有试过让他参加演出?

斯特恩:不,我没有。 我真的不感兴趣。 我真的没有很多政客。 这就是为什么对希拉里克林顿的开放不是关于政治,而是关于,“嘿,作为一个人脱身。谈谈你的激情。让我试着以不同的方式呈现你。”

但唐纳德在我的婚礼上,我认识梅拉尼亚,我认识伊万卡,我认识这些人。 作为一名电台嘉宾和一名男士,我记得我在她的葬礼上向Joan Rivers赠送了悼词,我记得在观众席中观看。 我正在讲一个阴道笑话。 (笑声)拉比在我身后,它非常阴郁,人们一直在继续,继续,然后我起床,我走了,“Joan Rivers有一个非常干燥的阴道。” (笑声)这个地方疯狂。 而且我记得看着唐纳德特朗普正坐在那里,只是歇斯底里地笑着度过了一段美好时光。

我总是对唐纳德有一种很好的感觉。 但是,总统职位是一个不同的故事,你知道吗? 我感觉不到他对它的热情。 我认为他更愿意去Mar-a-Lago。 我去过Mar-a-Lago并在那里吃过晚饭,这太棒了,这就像一场梦。 你为什么要离开? 太棒了。

所以我不知道整件事是什么。 但我当然建议下一位获得提名的民主党人,也许会考虑放弃这个节目,而不是激动人心的政治讨论,而是关于生活的真正讨论。

霍华德 - 斯特恩特雷西 - 史密斯顶面试-620.jpg
霍华德斯特恩与特雷西史密斯。 CBS新闻

史密斯:有趣的是,这是一张沙发。 我的意思是,你觉得你在某种程度上是一名治疗师吗?

斯特恩:有些人对我说:“哦,我不知道我们要做一个疗程,”而且这个和那个。 但实际上,我实际上一直害怕治疗,实际上躺在沙发上。

史密斯:哦,你不躺在沙发上。

斯特恩:有人问我治疗师是否想要这样做。 因为他是精神分析师。 这是弗洛伊德式的。 就像,我不能听,我从来没有能够坐在沙发上,躺在沙发上。 我太不安全了。 我必须知道你在看着我。 (笑)我不能这样做。 但实际上有一位客人,我们之后正在拍照,躺在沙发上说:“我只是觉得我经历了精神分析,”所以他躺在沙发上 - 哦,这是波诺。 然后波诺把头放在我的腿上。 (笑声)这有点好笑。

史密斯:我的意思是,你听到了很多,人们觉得坐在沙发上后他们经历了治疗。

斯特恩:是的,是的,我喜欢那样。 当有人这么说时我爱。 这只是世界上最酷的事情。

史密斯:我在很多视频中看到了名人,但我不一定看到你的眼睛在哪里。

斯特恩:是的,因为我讨厌我看起来那么多的样子,我真的很多次在相机上将我的脸藏在麦克风后面。 我躲在麦克风后面。 这张脸,你知道,收音机对我来说很好。 我不认为我会在电视上有过职业生涯。 它只是没有用。 所以即使到今天,我对自己的外表也有些自我意识。 我讨厌做这次采访,因为我无法控制你的相机和所有那些(笑声)的东西。 我对此感觉不太好。

史密斯:我明白了。 但是当受访者坐在这里时,你是否一直保持目光接触?

斯特恩:哦,不,我很关键。哦,是的,一直都是。 有些客人无法进行目光接触。 他们视线了。 他们一直看着罗宾。 这真的很有趣。 有些人不能。 然后有些人可以完全参与。

史密斯:这些天你有没有问过这些问题?

斯特恩:不,我觉得桌子上有什么东西。 只是,你知道,我可能对如何到达那里更敏感。

史密斯:你不一定想伤害别人的感受吗? 说得公平吗?

斯特恩:不,我没有。 我仍然认为我的观众坐在车里。 通常是一个正在上班的男人或女人。 他们坐在车里只是悲惨。 他们很悲惨。 他们的车里没什么可做的,如果你能在他们上班的地方保持兴趣并且他们不想下车,那么你就成功了。 所以,如果我能像这样在空中与你交谈,并且观众被粘在一起并且真的感觉很棒,我给了这个令人难以置信的体验。

这就是我对它的看法。 因此,我并不想像你一样追逐你离开工作室,“嘿,告诉我昨晚与你丈夫发生的性关系。” 你知道,我的意思是,我好奇。 但是说真的,如果你和我进行了一次关于婚姻的好讨论,或者说它有多么难或很容易,或者它是什么,或者你对你丈夫的感受,也许我们会进行性讨论。 我们不知道。 所以我不打算让任何人难堪。 我不打算突然提出每个人都想要问的问题。 如果你和我坐在一起共进晚餐,我真的会想到会发生在我们之间的事情。

史密斯:这是一场晚宴聚会,只是比这更深刻。

斯特恩:是的,我是这么认为的,更深层次,但是,也知道它也是一种表现。 你知道,所以尽可能深入谈话。 我的意思是,深刻是伟大的。 这就是我职业生涯中令人震惊的事情。 坐着和深入的人交谈,这可能是有启发性的。 所以,你知道,你必须经常改变。

史密斯:当我看着查理兹,想着莉娜·邓纳姆和艾米·舒默向你透露,我的意思是,这些关于性侵犯的个人时刻,我想,这里的人多年来被称为厌恶女人,然而,这些女人选择与他分享这些时刻。

斯特恩:你知道,即使被称为厌恶女人,对我来说也很奇怪,因为我没有,再一次,我没有在空中做什么,我认为这将是有趣的,而且再一次是一种表演。 就像,和一个色情明星对我说话很有意思。 这就是我感兴趣的东西。 它也让我感兴趣的是政府和宗教团体会对这件事感到不安,他们吓坏了。 所以作为一个年轻人,这对我来说就像朋克音乐。 我只是在脸上,在牙齿里踢它。 但是,你知道,人们会这样认识我,这对我来说很奇怪,但我理解它。 他们当然会,因为那是他们所看到的。

所以,现在当我和Amy Schumer交谈时,她正在谈论一些非常可怕的东西。 或者莉娜邓纳姆给了我一个有史以来最开放和原始的采访,她睁开眼睛,我正在想书中的一个对话,我不记得是谁说的,也许是艾米舒默。 我希望我做对了。 我的意思是,我已经在这方面工作了很长时间,但谈论完美的强奸,关于人们听到有人被强奸时的情况,完美的强奸是,哦,你走在巷子里,有些人跳了起来你拉了一把刀,强迫你做爱。 但这不是它总是看起来的样子,而这正是人们必须要理解的。 她说,就是这样,强奸可能看起来像我和男朋友在床上一样,无论出于何种原因,事情都无法控制,我说不,他一直在努力。

然后,当这样的时刻发生,她开始谈论自己的情况时,我说,想象一下谁在听这个。 这真的可以改变一些事情。 这真的可以改变他们的世界,打开某人的思想。 他们听到这位在我的节目中非常有意义的女人,对于一些可能永远不会得到它的人来说,这真的可以改变生活。 你知道,谁不明白, 哦,等一下,你的意思是,我可以在你里面,你可以说不,我将不得不退出? 他们不明白。 但这是一种教育。 那是在学习。 所以,当那个时刻发生在那里,尤其是当我喜欢女性进入这里并谈论类似的事情时。 我认为他们正在接触到新的观众,这是深刻的。

史密斯:所以这是其中的一部分,你希望你的观众也会发展吗?

斯特恩:哎呀,我不知道我是不是很沉重。 我只希望观众喜欢我正在做的事情,有时候这很奇怪。 因为罗宾和我可以说话,而我们正处于二年级的幽默中。 我们正在做一些如此奇怪的事情,Sal正在谈论他的阴茎状态,并且他使用酸奶来消除他对生殖器的瘙痒。 然后突然间,我和柯南奥布莱恩进行了激烈的交谈。 我喜欢这种转变。 它就像一把大锤。 就像,有时几乎是两个不同的节目。 而且我觉得这很好。 你只是不知道会发生什么,这让我感动。

史密斯:因为这是你们所有人。 这是愚蠢的幽默 -

斯特恩:是的。

史密斯:然后是深度。

斯特恩:是的,这就是为什么我总是讨厌这个头衔“震撼运动员”等等。 应该令人震惊的是,我不只是描绘了我的一面。 对我来说,最无聊的收音机是政治保守的电台,他们在那里喷出了共和党的阵容。

我已经说过多年了。 因为我认为如果有一段时间他们与民主党人达成一致意见或出现与党派路线完全相反的事情,那将会更有趣。 那会更有趣。 我宁愿看到一个完整的人。

我的意思是,甚至不让我开始。 我有很多关于无线电的理论以及它应该是什么,而且,你知道,这里有太多的东西。 但好收音机,它让你措手不及。 “哦,我不知道他有这个内心。我不知道他有能力理解Amy Schumer可能会说的话或Lena Dunham。哦,你的意思是说Lena Dunham很酷吗?哦,好吧。 “ 或者,这是出乎意料的。 你知道,并不总是像个馅饼一样吗?

史密斯:你真的认为很棒的面试是一种迷失的艺术吗?

斯特恩:噢,我认为艺术已经消失了。 我的意思是,曾经有人真正知道如何吸引大众。 芭芭拉沃尔特斯,我认为这很棒。 我的意思是,是的,她的很多采访都是经过编辑的。 但是,吸引大众观众的良好对话的想法,这是关键。 太。 这曾经意味着什么。 而且我认为现在发生的事情是,由于技术和播客以及其他一切,并且每个人都可以访问,有很多人在技术上可以使用这种设备。 他们正在做,我猜,他们正在进行对话,但这并不一定有趣。 它没有精心制作。 进入它并不是一个完整的想法。 它就在那里。

然后我们现在所做的,我们希望每个人都可以自己编辑和快速转发,而实际的对话艺术也不见了。 而且我认为,如果有的话,这本书会庆祝这些谈话没有网络。 他们实时收听广播。 如果有一个搞砸了,你会听到它。 无论是什么,都会在那里,疣和所有,这是令人兴奋的地狱。 我不想做编辑的采访。

史密斯:不。

斯特恩:不,因为让我做我的事。 无论什么跌倒,跌倒。 无论你在那次采访中说什么都会在那里,没有人可以打电话给你,一个公关人员不能打电话给你,然后去,“拿出来,”你知道吗? (笑声)你知道,没关系。 再一次,我并不是要让任何人感到尴尬,但这件事实时发生了很大的变化。

事实上,有一个集体倾听它,有一种能量,我从那里吃。 如果我不得不为20个人做一个播客,我想我仍然会同样关心,但是人们没有听到它的想法会让我头脑发热。

所以,是的,有很多采访正在进行中,但我认为艺术和工艺真正地制作了一些有趣的东西,并从某个有意义的人那里获得了某些东西,并且还将这个东西移动并创造了节奏和节奏,这就是一切都消失了。 是的,你知道,我认为有一小部分人真正进入并做到这一点。 但是,你知道,我认为这是一种重要的艺术形式,因为你真的可以学到一些东西。

而且,你知道,很多这些庆祝活动,那些有成就的名人,都很难把事情搞清楚,因为他们对所说的话非常了不起。 所以如果你能破解那个贴面。 我的意思是,我对查理兹塞隆一无所知,但是天哪,她是如此开放。 我就像,“哦,我爱她。” 你爱上那个人,因为他们只是有点宽松,现在你有点瞥见他们。 所以我认为其中的一部分是,如果我们要像这本书一样庆祝名人,那么让某人知道谁可能非常聪明,并且非常精明地保护自己并把它们放在那里,然后看着所有这些融化了然后进入真实的东西,这很酷。 我喜欢它。

史密斯:当这些采访正在进行时,你的脑子里有什么?

斯特恩:哦,这不好玩。 你不想被困在我脑海里。 (笑声)这是一场噩梦。 我不知道你是怎么做的,但我的过程非常 - 而这是另一回事。 也许对于其他广播公司,我想概述一下我的一些过程以及我在书中做了些什么。 我不想学习,但这是一个非常具体的事情。 当我们预订客人,我们每周只预订一到两位客人时,我们有一个很大的等待名单,但我也喜欢在收音机上闲逛,没有客人的日子。 因为我的很多节目都不是关于客人的,而是关于我的! (笑声)我正在经历的事情。 客人的东西是特别的,你试图让它保持特别,我试图引进我认为观众可能会感兴趣的人。但是,一旦我们宣布保罗麦卡特尼即将进入或大卫莱特曼,或类似的人,我进入了区域。

我到处都有垫子,我有这个奇怪的东西,我总能想象出什么东西听起来像是提前。 因为我还是个小男孩,所以我一直听到无线电节目。 你知道,我曾经在我的房间,我不知道,七,八岁,或者每当我的父亲给我一台Wollensak录音机而且我会制作这些节目时,我会想象我是Soupy销售。 或者我在疯狂杂志,通常的白痴团伙都是我的朋友。 他们只是进出这个对话。 我会梦想这个。 我记得大学第一次尝试时,我有一个名为King Schmaltz Bagel Hour的节目。 我被解雇了,比如20分钟。 在大学广播中,你可以免费工作,你知道吗?

史密斯:嗯,有什么关于让主教脸红的东西?

斯特恩:是的,没错。 我被开除了。 哦,这太疯狂了。 我们也做了一点,哥斯拉去了哈莱姆。 然后我们开始接听电话,我正在尝试这个我的想法。 我有三个和我一起工作的人,他们很聪明,他们比我好多了。 节目主管喊道,“嗨,我是你节目的来电者。猜猜我是谁,我会给你三个猜测,前两个不算数。” 我们走吧,“哦,你是玛丽吗?你是鲟鱼吗?” 然后他说:“不,这是汉克,你们都被解雇了。” 我被解雇了。 我知道,我可以想象我的父亲杀了我。 你个傻冒! 我可以在后台听到他, 你这个白痴! 所以,我不知道我在说什么......

史密斯:你的研究过程。

斯特恩:(笑)无论如何,对于客人来说,这是非常具体的。 我总能听到Paul McCartney的声音,所以我开始记下所有这些想法。 我们也有一个很棒的员工,你知道,我不是一个人做的。 我的家伙做了很多研究。 而且我有这个奇怪的事情,我在书中描述了一个名叫Jon Hein的人,很多粉丝都会知道,他在我们的节目中,他积累了所有这些研究。 我发给他所有的笔记,然后大约十分钟,在客人进来之前,他真的只是读给我听。 就像,当我在商业休息时。 如果你正在观看节目,你会看到我只是坐在那里,他开始给我看。 他读着,他读着,他向我读了一切。 当我听到它时,听起来像是一个电台节目,一切都被记住了。 我没有看任何笔记,我没有。 我记得一切。 这一切都在我脑海里。

史密斯:然后你可以进行一次对话。

斯特恩:是的,但如果我不得不读它,我永远不能保留一件事。 有点奇怪。

史密斯:但你不喜欢这些采访吗?

斯特恩:不,我对他们着迷。

史密斯:即使他们正在发生,你也听到了所有这些伟大的事情?

斯特恩:没有。我正在想象它在收音机里的声音。 我有点像,“哦,我做对了吗?” 我脑子里正在进行一次对话,就像一首交响乐在脑海中浮现。 我真的想要做对,我真的希望它是特别的。 我可能想要那么多。 所以你知道,我必须控制住这一点。 有时,你知道,我可以吹它。 我变得如此僵硬。

我记得Robert Plant进来的时候.Robert Plant,我崇拜他,Led Zeppelin,你知道吗? 而且我记得被注意到了。 我想学习有关Led Zeppelin的所有知识。 Robert Plant对谈论Led Zeppelin并不感兴趣,他不想谈论它,他试图很好地告诉我,我不是在听,你知道。 我真的没有听到他的声音。 结果,我认为我没有做得很好。 它不在书中。 (笑)有一些东西,一个模糊。 但我没有把它弄好。 In my mind, and I go home and I'm just like, "You idiot!"

Smith: You chew on this, yes.

Stern: And I have lists of, if I ever get a second chance with a person, how I would do it. I keep meticulous lists.

Smith: Can you share any of that with me? Who do I want a second chance with?

Stern: I did a three-hour show with Billy Joel, which I include in the book, and it was a very unusual one. It was only one of the few interviews I did in front of an audience, and we had guest musicians come in and stuff. But right afterwards I said, "Oh, I should have asked him this, this, this…" and I have 50 questions if Billy walks in the door again. Same with , and I've interviewed him several times. There's a whole list of people. The only one I ever thought I really got right, that was perfect, was .

Smith: Conan O'Brien, that's your best interview?

Stern: Best interview I ever did. First of all, he is brilliant. I didn't understand. I had interviewed Conan O'Brien back in the terrestrial radio days, and all I did was attack him. We had a puppet that was talking to him and attacking him. And this is what I mean about how I can't stand to go back, because Conan sat down in that chair, and I got to know him. I became a fan of Conan's in that interview. I didn't realize how brilliant he was, I didn't realize how good a talk show – if I see Conan O'Brien's gonna be a talk show guest now I have to watch. 'Cause he's that good at it, and he was open, he was honest. He talked about depression, he talked about his days at Harvard, talked about this wild kinda thing he did with Bill Cosby. These were things that he just tells in a way, he's a great storyteller. And I walked outta there and I went, "I got no issue. This is really weird. I did not screw this up in any way, it was the perfect interview."

Smith: Is it just that one?

Stern: Conan is the shine. No, there's some that I really love, and I shared those in the book. But above all others, it was Conan. Oh, I love the Jerry Seinfeld interview. And I became really good friends with Jerry after this. I go to his home regularly, got to know his wife, his kids, because Jerry invited me over after I interviewed him. 'Cause I swear to you, I felt like we were best friends after this. And he turned to me and he said, "I am never coming on your show again." I go, "Jerry, why are you doing that?" He goes, "Because that interview was so perfect. Everyone walks up to me on the street and says, 'That was the best thing we've ever heard you do.' I could never—'" I said, "Wait a second, don't punish me for doing a good interview with you." (LAUGHS) But that's Jerry's mind, because look how he walked away from "Seinfeld."

Smith: Right, right.

Stern: "I can't top 'Seinfeld.' I'm never doing another sitcom." 这真是令人着迷。

Smith: So you chew on, , this is part of the obsessiveness, yes?

Stern: Yes, obsessive.

Smith: I wanna talk about this OCD

Stern: It's horrible.

Smith: Has it gotten better?

Stern: Yes, some of the rituals have gone away.

Smith: You don't have rituals?

Stern: Well, I have it sometimes, I have to struggle with it. I know it leads to real agita in my life. Where I still think I have OCD is, I am incredibly rigid in my schedule and in my life. Like, if dinner's gonna be ten minutes later than I usually eat, I get nuts. I feel like it's the end of my world. That's why I said my poor wife, she knows. We were planning a trip this summer to go to Italy. But it's too … I can't deal with it.

史密斯:为什么?

Stern: Because I'm like, "Oh the time difference, and I'll be in a hotel, and I won't be comfortable, I'm not with my stuff."

Smith: So it's crippling.

Stern: I'm in a bit of a prison. Surprised this isn't a wheelchair, because it sometimes feels like that, that I can't get up and walk, you know, on my own two feet. And yet, I'm the same guy who went all around the country doing this revolutionary radio show.

Some of it doesn't add up. But radio was very, very safe for me. I always loved being in a studio by myself. That, to me, is heaven. I can sit there by myself, imagine the audience, but not have to really touch the audience, physically, or see them. And it's a discipline that I can handle. And it forces me to get up early in the morning, the scheduling of it. I have to go to bed early. If I stay out a half-hour too late, I'm not gonna be any good on the radio. It's OCD. So I'm working on that now. I still got a long way to go with this therapy, I'm still in it. One day you'll interview me. I'm gonna come back when I'm evolved.

Smith: Please. (LAUGHS) Make a promise. Yes, when you're fully evolved.

Stern: I'm gonna float in. I'm not even gonna be walking on the floor. I'm gonna be floating. (笑)

Smith: I wanna talk about the other health issue that you reveal in the book.

Stern: Yeah, that was horrible.

Smith: Yeah, so you had a big health scare and missed work.

Stern: That wasn't supposed to happen. I never miss work, that's the other thing. I am, you know, no matter what, like the post office, I gotta deliver. So it was just a very weird thing to me. And this is how childish I am, I'm under this magical conclusion that nothing bad will ever happen to me and that my health will always be good. My parents are 96 and 91, and my genetics should be good, and I shouldn't have any health problems.

So when a doctor told me, "95% chance you have kidney cancer," I was floored. This is not how I'm supposed to go out. This is not possible, I'm supposed to live a lot longer. I mean, things aren't supposed to happen to me like this.

And I didn't know how to handle it, I was in a panic. And they were like, "Don't worry, we caught it early, you were lucky," blah blah blah. I mean, I go into more detail in the book. But the weird thing about it was I couldn't admit it to the audience. I was afraid to.

史密斯:为什么?

Stern: Because if you do a radio show like mine, and now you see it with Twitter and social media, if you announce on the air that you're going in to remove kidney cancer, people start diagnosing, they start calling in, they start telling you about some brother of theirs who went in for the same thing and died during the operation, or some weird stuff that is all bogus science. They fill your head up, and if you have OCD, forget it. You start to believe everything they say, and I would have been a wreck.

The other thing is though, and I think it's deeper, is that I don't think I could admit to myself that this was going on. I was somehow like, maybe ashamed. Or I just couldn't deal with it, I didn't wanna admit that I was somehow getting older, and it brought out a lotta issues. I wasn't indestructible; I'm not Superman, I'm human. And it hit me like a ton of bricks.

So when the doctor called me and said – I had it all arranged that I wouldn't miss the show that morning, and then I'd have a week off to recuperate – but he said, "I think I can take you earlier." And I thought in my mind, "Oh he must be like me" (LAUGHS), this is how whacked out I am. "I wanna get to him first thing in the morning, because I'm at my best in the morning, maybe he's at his best in the morning. I'm goin' in."

So I went in, and I didn't think it would be that big a deal. Well, it became a big deal.

Smith: Well, not only was it a big deal surgically. I mean, it was serious surgery. But then on top of it, mentally like you said …

Stern: Oh my God, and then the audience was like, "Something's wrong." I'm like, how do they know that?

Smith: Did you look at death differently? Life differently?

Stern: Oh yeah, no, it rocked me. And it does cause you to evaluate what's going on in your life. And in a way, that's why the book became important to me. I was not gonna write another book, but I started to think about, "What am I leavin' behind, and what am I most proud of?" And what I'm most proud of is my relationship with my wife and my daughters. I just love these kids and what they're doing in the world. It moves me almost to tears to think about what my daughters are doing in this world. They're just beautiful people, and what it is, I might say to the audience, what is it that really moved me in my career. And it's these collection of interviews that I did, and what I might say about them.

And maybe, you know, future broadcasters might read this and say, "Oh that's how he did it, or that was his process." Or maybe there's some wisdom there, like it's weird when you read the interviews. Like, sometimes a person's voice gets in the way of the message. And I found, for example, Mike Tyson, I never understood drug addiction. It's something that's not in my world in terms of my own personal experience, I've never been addicted to drugs. And when he starts to compare it, he said, "Think of it like food. What if you hadn't eaten in two days, what might you do? That's drug addiction, that's how bad you need drugs." Now, no one had ever explained it to me the way Mike Tyson did. And then I went, "Oh I get it." Like, I'm learning from him.

I learn from every person in that book. And mostly about their climb, the drive for success. Stephen Colbert's interview rocked me, when he's talking about the death of his father, some of some of his siblings [who] died in a plane crash. Talked about religion, talked about – I mean, I became connected to him, you know? It's a beautiful thing. And interviewing became a very beautiful thing to me. And when Simon & Schuster said to me, "Oh we would love to put out a collection of your interviews," at first I was like, "Oh no, people have heard these interviews." But they proved it to me, they brought in a book and said, "Look." They put a couple of interviews and some transcripts, and I started to read through 'em, I go, "Oh you know, maybe this could be interesting to people," and that's how the whole book evolved.

Smith: Why don't you talk about your family as much on the show?

Stern: Yeah, you know, that's something I learned through therapy, like, nothing was sacred. I'm come in on the air, and it was a scorched-earth policy. But you can't have relationships if everything is available to the audience, and if everybody's a subject of your humor. And so now I know that, like, the kids, I don't wanna share all that much about my kids with the audience. You have to hold some relationships sacred. If you're gonna be in a good marriage, I can't sit there and give you every detail of what it is my wife and I might be doin' in the bedroom. I just can't share that with you. It upsets her. I didn't know this. My attitude was, when I was growing up my parents joked about everything. Not saying there was real conversation, everything was a joke. There was no real conversation. It was, as my mother would say, "Shtick." She goes, "You get your shtick from your grandfather, you get this, you get that." So to me, I wasn't out to hurt anyone, but conversation really was just funny, and you should laugh at everything.

And so I didn't draw a line. And that's not to say I don't share a lot with my audience, I do. I mean, I'm brutally honest and every neurosis and everything is discussed. In my opinion, that's where good humor comes from. That's where a funny show comes from. People wanna hear that type of honesty. I have a real intimacy with the audience. But I can still do a show and not necessarily share with you everything my wife and I are doing in the bedroom. Or maybe every little conversation we had. You know, I can now control that. But having said that, the example of my mother in the book, I saved her for the end, is one of the wildest conversations I ever had on the air.

Now, I knew my mother could handle it, because that's how we can talk. And as I say in the book, "You might be jealous of this conversation. Gee, I wish I could talk to my mother like this." But it's not a real conversation. It's me talking and it was my birthday, my mother calls in and I go, "How was I conceived? What position were you in?" (LAUGHS) What do you mean, you don't talk to your mother about this?

Smith: No, I'm just saying that this is "Sunday Morning," so that's as far as we can go there.

Stern: Oh grow up. (LAUGHS) Come on, let's talk about it.

Smith: But this is interesting because the chapter about your mom and your parents, you say one of the reasons that you did this book was so that your parents could see it while they were still here to see it.

Stern: Yeah, they still haven't seen it yet, so I better get on that! They're pretty old, My mother goes, "Where is this book already?" I go, "Mom, the book is coming out May 14th. I don't have it in my hands yet." "When am I gonna see this book? When am I gonna see the book?" I go, "I don't have one for you yet." "And when is your Aunt Mildred gonna get a book? I promised her you'd send one." And it's like, "I'm tryin' to describe to you that it's coming. Howard Stern is coming."

Smith: Yeah, by the way, the title, yes, you're so evolved.

Stern: Well, that says it all. (LAUGHS) As proud as I am of this book, and as much as I talk about an evolution, the book title still -- so if it does go to number one, and my fingers are crossed, "Howard Stern Comes Again" is number one would really please me. (笑)

Smith: 'Cause there's still that side of Howard.

Stern: Yeah, I still liked "Howard Stern's Private Parts," you know? The sense of humor is still rather childish. There's still part of me that lives for Mad Magazine, those guys were geniuses.

Smith: Going back to your family, do you think that this book will be a way to have deeper conversations with mom and dad?

Stern: I don't know. Look, my mother and I talk on the phone all the time. I go to see my mother all the time. And my father's quite old now, it's hard for him to hear, but we talk. You know, there's a relationship there that I think is kind of cemented. But actually, through therapy I've been able to go to my mother and ask her certain things, and I mean, you can get deep. My parents had really tough lives, they really did, and I think there's only so much they can handle in terms of intimacy and that kind of real conversation.

Smith: You've talked about the daddy issues.

Stern: Yeah, but so many guys have daddy issues and they don't get in touch with them. My father was always there, my father is a really honest, funny guy. But I grew up in a neighborhood that was very tough. It was a rough neighborhood. And if my father had been the kind of guy who would've come to me and said, "How are you coping with all of this? All your friends have moved away, all these white people moved away. We live in an all-black neighborhood. What's that like for you? Are you able to have friendships? What's it like when you knock on the door in the middle of the night, and your friends move out of town?" Some heavy stuff going on there. But my parents didn't know how to check in like that. They didn't know how to ask me how things were going. And I wanted to be a hero. I was very stoic. I never wanted to complain to them. I didn't want to add to their burden.

Smith: So, you didn't?

Stern: I never thought of myself. But I also shut down emotionally. I never, ever thought about myself. So, everything was kind of bottled up inside of me. And I think when I first started to really get successful on the radio, I roared like a lion.

Smith: Because all of that was coming out?

Stern: All of it came out. Yeah, yeah, had to, had to come out somewhere. Probably, if it hadn't, I probably would've gone completely psycho. (LAUGHS) It just was a good outlet for me.

Smith: Do you get a sense from mom and dad that they're proud now?

Stern: Oh, yeah.

Smith: Have they said, "We're proud of you, Howard."

Stern: Yes. I badgered my father until I said, "Dad, tell me you love me. Tell me you love me."

Smith: You did, really?

Stern: Yeah, yeah, I did that years ago on the radio, and he called up one day, "Harold, I love you." You know, like, pulling teeth, but yeah. You know, it feels like a lot of hoops you have to jump through to get that. But I think my parents were always proud of me, and they were quite tickled by my accomplishments, and always appreciated the radio show. They have a great sense of humor.

Smith: So, this book is more about you being proud of you?

Stern: This book I wrote for me. At the end of the day, you know, I get caught up in, gee, I hope everyone likes it. I had this fantasy that not only my fans will read this book, but the fantasy – and part of the reason why I sat down with you is that every publicist said to me, "Oh, 'CBS Sunday Morning' sells a lot of books." And who I was interested in reaching was maybe the person who didn't follow me to satellite radio, who used to kind of hear me every day. Or maybe someone who was turned off to me. One of the three people in their cars that weren't listening who said, "Oh, I would never read a book by Howard Stern." I wanted them to read this book and see what we're doing now, and see if it might interest them.

Smith: So, that brings up a good point. To those people out there who hear the name Howard Stern, and say, "Oh, he's vulgar, oh, he's that shock jock – "

Stern: Well, listen, I'm pretty shocking. What I did, especially when I came on the scene, radio was a wasteland. No one was really up to much of anything. You know, you'd even hear political commentators, they stayed impartial. I remember when I was on in Washington, DC, and I shot to number one quickly. It was so easy because broadcasters who were, let's say on WTOP in Washington, which was an all-news station, and they had political discussion. The broadcaster never would say, "I'm a Democrat, or I'm a Republican." They stayed out of it. The audience, all of a sudden, things became heated up when I got in radio, and it wasn't enough. And I think I changed radio for the better, but I wasn't everyone's cup of tea. I can now certainly understand why.

Smith: So, what do you say to those folks who just dismiss you as this vulgar guy, "I'm not gonna read his book because he's that, you know, potty mouth guy"?

Stern: Well, I'd like to say to them that I think if they read this book, which is about this part of my career, psychoanalysis, family, and it celebrates some of the most accomplished people in the world, and some of the most infamous people. I've included Harvey Weinstein, Bill O'Reilly, and I struggled with that.

But I put in our president. There's wild conversation with Donald Trump and AJ Benza on my radio show. But there's also a lot of people in this book who have built incredible careers, and you can learn something from 'em. What was it that drove them? What are some of their thoughts? What are they struggling with? There's a lot of human drama in these conversations. And so, I would make an appeal to them to read the book, and maybe it's self-serving. Of course it is! But I really wrote it, I really can honestly tell you, (LAUGHS) I didn't write it for the money. I wrote it because I'm proud of it, and I think they'll get something out of it. As book readers, I think book readers will enjoy this, I truly do.

Smith: You dedicate the book to the animals that you and Beth have rescued. 为什么?

Stern: Because this is really opened up my heart, too. I wrote a touching piece about my cat, Leon, who I've painted many times. I paint cats a lot. I do watercolor paintings. And the one in the back of the book, I put a watercolor painting of my cat, Sophia, I did gazing out my window. And Sophia died young. But my wife got me into animal rescue. I always had a love of animals, but she decided her life's passion was to open up our home. First we got involved with , and we raised the money to build a new wing, which is a cage-free environment for cats, and free up room for dogs. So, they have a better experience in shelters.

And then we started to open up our home, and Beth created , where we started to try to adopt out some of these animals. And people started following her, and now we've had over 1,000 cats come through our house, and we've gotten homes for all of them.

Smith: A thousand cats?

Stern: Yeah, Fart-Man now helps cats. (LAUGHS) So, it's pretty amazing, over 1,000 cats.

Smith: It's astounding.

Stern: Right now, I have three pregnant mama cats in my house, and we give them a safe environment. They don't have to be in a cage. We feed them, they have toys, and then these great people, we vet them, we do the whole thing. And then we find them the best home we can find. And I gotta tell you, it is heart-wrenching. Because each one of them, we want to keep. We fall in love with these animals, and we're so worried that when they go to someone's home they're gonna leave a door open. We don't believe in putting a cat outside. And what I obsess, I worry about them.

Smith: About the cats?

Stern: And so, oh my God, yeah, because I'm so emotionally attached to them.

Smith: What do you think that's done for you?

Stern: Oh, it is so rewarding to get involved with animal rescue. I can't tell you, there are times where I'm sitting there and it's all about me, and I'm worrying about an interview, or I'm worrying about the radio show, or you know, whatever it is. And I have to, like, literally say to myself, Go downstairs with Beth, and just sit with the cats.

You get out of your head. And I can sit in a room all day and paint, and play chess, and I can entertain myself. I'm not a person that's bored. But in order to integrate back into the world, I go and do the animal rescue. And we've done all kinds of animal rescue, dogs, birds, everything. We stopped eating meat, and we stopped eating birds after this. We'd be hypocritical. But yeah, I love it. And I love my wife for turning me onto that, and I love how she is with animals.

Smith: Yeah, how much of this evolution is because of Beth?

Stern: Oh, so much of it. I mean, I've never felt so loved, and I've never been so in love with someone. My kids were my first real love affair, but my relationship with Beth has been so healthy, and so good for me. And she's so opposite me in so many ways, that I hold her up as a role model. You know, I really do. I learn so much from her. Like, as you can tell, I'm constantly talking. It's like an umbilical cord that I need to form with people. And she is not like that. Like, we were at dinner last night, and she was very quiet. And I got so uncomfortable. To me, if someone is constantly talking – oh, they don't love me, they don't this, they don't that. And it shows me you don't have to constantly have that umbilical cord. And she's so at peace. She'll sit there with a cat on her lap and start cutting their nails. I can never do this. And you know, she's just so calm, and her presence is just so magical to me, that I just feel very fortunate that someone like that could love me. Which is phenomenal. So, all of this is important to becoming a better interviewer. So, you have to marry Beth, have to go into psychoanalysis four days a week. Well, you know, look, you know, I'm sitting here actually thinking, Oh, I would love to talk to you about how you got in the business.

Smith: No, you can't ask me questions.

Stern: No, I know. And it's very difficult.

Smith: I know, I know.

Stern: Because I'm really kind of curious about how you got started.

Smith: No, no, no. We have to talk about another – I think it's fair to say, love, Robin?

Stern: Oh my God, Robin. Robin is something else.

Smith: So, she had her own health battle with cancer?

Stern: Yeah, I remember telling Robin my thing, I was scared about going in for this kidney operation. It's a crazy operation, they use seven robot arms, and you wake up, and you look down, and you go, Oh my God, you know? (笑)

Smith: Jeez.

Stern: You know, it's crazy. And it took me a long time to get back in the groove. By the way, that's another reason I didn't want the calling in and going, "Oh, you sound worn out, or you sound tired, or you sound – " or reading into it. So, if I had as***** performance or a bad performance, I would somehow be evaluated in light of what had happened to me. So, I kept it quiet and nobody noticed. With Robin, kind of the same thing.

You know, Robin is going through this horrible health scare, and she has fought cancer so bravely. You know, when people used to say, oh, someone's so brave, I didn't even know what they were talking about. Robin is such a force of nature, and so positive, that the way she tackles her illness, to say it's inspirational would be trivial. Like, it literally is amazing.

And we've become much closer especially after her illness. And in talking with her, and going through it with her, it even reminds me every day of how important she is to this show, and to me personally. She has been everything to me. The day that a program director named Denise Oliver teamed us up in Washington DC, I felt complete, in terms of my performance.

Robin and I never saw each other when we got hired. We talked on the phone. That was our audition. It was my way of hearing if we had something. And all of a sudden on that one phone conversation, I go, Holy cow, is this easy! She's my muse. She's like my audience. I'm not a standup. I don't have an audience in the studio. She's literally the person that I'm talking with and hearing feedback from. And her brilliance has been nothing short of phenomenal in my career. My father used to always say to me, he goes, "Robin's the right person." She's a wealth of knowledge, she's able to interject and keep me going. You know, I've got to fill 4 1/2 hours every day. So, Robin is all of that. And when it all of a sudden happened, materialized, she had this cancer, a tumor, I was like, I can't lose Robin. 我不能。 She's had my back every step of the way, and I've had hers.

Smith: Did you allow yourself to think about, what if I lose her?

Stern: I cried, I cried like a baby. 那太差了。 She had a 12-hour surgery, her first big surgery, and she has a girlfriend, who is in the medical community. She would call and give me updates, and at one point right during the surgery, during this 12-hour period that was a real scare, I just lost it. I just lost it. I couldn't control myself. I was like, "Oh my God, Robin, I'm gonna lose Robin." I couldn't imagine my life without her. I don't know that I would even continue to do a radio show if I lose Robin. I don't know how that would look. She's the most fantastic collaborator. She's part of the sound of the show. I describe in the book, many times the only way I can listen to the show is, I go in a shower, and I have a speaker in the shower. And I listen to the show, and I listen to our voices. And if it sounds a certain way, I can't hear the words, all I can hear is the modulation of the voices. And sometimes it sounds like radio to me. It sounds the way I hear it in my head. And I go, Oh okay, the show's fine. I don't need to hear the actual content.

So, Robin has to stay alive. I told her that. I tell Robin all the time what she means to me. But it even feels like I don't tell her enough. So, it's a tremendous relationship. It's been a tremendous success as broadcasters what we do. And I think we both really have come to a place where we genuinely appreciate each other, not only as performers, but as people.

Smith: Well, it sounds to me that part of this evolution is allowing yourself to get close to other people?

Stern: Yeah, yeah, I'm able to tell people what I think of them, and how important they are, without feeling ashamed. And that's a whole other long story, but I'm able to open up, and not be afraid of feeling attachment. For so many years I was afraid to feel attachment. It's a weird thing. You're so well-protected when you don't feel attachment. Nothing touches you. And now, with the thought of ever losing Robin, for example, that touches me and that's painful. And I was afraid to be in pain. And now, I'm open to the idea of being a human being. (笑)

Smith: So, who's the big dream interview now?

Stern: Well, quite frankly, you, I'm going to say.

Smith: Yeah, right.

Stern: Yeah, no. What the dream interview would be, you know, it's really weird. It's not always who you like, it doesn't have to be the biggest name. Sometimes the dream interview is talking to this guy, JD, who works for me, about what's going on with his wife. Everyone is interesting, and I learned that when I was a really young broadcaster in Hartford, Connecticut. I was in charge of their public affairs programming. Not only was I the morning man, not only was I the guy who was in charge of making commercials. But on Sunday mornings I was in charge of – this is how I believe you've got to put in your 10,000 hours to be a good broadcaster – I was in charge of their public affairs programming. So, what do you do in Hartford for public affairs? I would interview the local car dealer, or a cop, or somebody, mostly clients of the station it turned into, about their lives. And I remember my parents for some reason, I guess they had driven through Hartford from New York, they heard me on Sunday morning doing an interview with, like, a car dealer. And my mother was like, "Wow, you're a really good interviewer. This was really interesting. I really loved this."

And these were just, you know, regular people. And really, the success of the show has been, we have a thing called "The Whack Pack," just talking to guys who live in trailers, like Jeff the Drunk.

Smith: Tan Mom?

Stern: Tan Mom. Tan mom is a great guest. (LAUGHS) As good as Donald Trump.

Smith: Everyone's interesting.

Stern: Whoever's interesting, whoever, conspiracy theorists are great. But, I mean, if you were gonna talk in the celebrity world, sitting down with Mick Jagger would be pretty awesome. I wish I could've met John Lennon. I idolized John Lennon. But getting to talk to Paul, I idolize him, or Ringo, fantastic, love the Beatles. I love musicians. I love talking to musicians. They perform right in this area.

And when we built this studio, by the way, don't even look at this studio as what real radio is. This was after years and years of a career where I got to build and design my own studio. This is the dream. This is exactly how I want [it]. Everything from the piece of glass over there, to how this board, I work my own equipment, I sit behind there, and I do my thing. And everything is tricked out the way I want it. And so, even where the musicians perform and where I sit, and how I look at them, this is the Mac Daddy of all radio studios.

Smith: So, how long are you gonna do this?

Stern: I don't know. I have two years left on my contract with SiriusXM, and I am in love with the people I work with, and work for. This is the best management. They leave me alone. I haven't seen 'em in days and months! And they get me. They get me on such a level. This is such a phenomenal experience, that I wish I was 20 years younger, and had the energy to keep doing this.

Smith: Well, that's a good point. Do you toy with the idea of retirement?

斯特恩:是的,一直都是。 我是一个从不厌倦的人。 我可以自己去我的房间。 我在Roosevelt [长岛]度过了很多年,独自坐着。 (笑)我可以画画,我喜欢画画。 我幻想能够一直这样做。 我喜欢坐着读报纸。 你知道,我可以轻松地娱乐自己。 然后恐慌开始了。像今天一样,我正在看新闻,哦,Gayle King,Gayle King故事。 星期一与Gayle King的谈话以及她的谈判让我有点想到了。 它会杀了! 我已经听过了,这很好。 我知道这很好。 所以,在我来到这里之前,我很快就把它写下来了,然后我把它发给了那些人,所以他们可以为我提供一些我需要的东西。 但是我迫不及待想要收听广播并为我的听众说明这一点。 他们会喜欢它。 他们会笑掉他们的屁股。 我知道。

史密斯:那就是你的样子,你迫不及待想要上电台?

斯特恩:这就是我的意思。 所以,好吧,我的生命,我的一生都有这个。 自从我五岁以来,我一直梦想着收听广播。 而且我会看到父亲看待电台表演者的方式,而我只想对他这样做。 所以,周一来的想法,我可以播出并做到这一点; 这对我来说是一个很大的冲动。 你知道吗,当你想到脑子里的东西时,你可以快速(SNAP)做到这一点吗? 我能做到。 这是惊人的。 我可以在数百万人面前做到这一点。

你知道,在Sirius XM,我们现在拥有3300万用户。 图,让我们保守,每个订阅两个人。 假设有6600万人。 他们告诉我,60%的订阅者都听我说。 这是数百万人,我们每天都在成长。 我们刚买了潘多拉。 这将是一个很大的推动力。

每个人都说过这件事,我很疯狂: 他们只有20万或30万订阅者,XM会消耗我们。 这是一个愚蠢的举动。 现在,我们有超过3300万的付费订阅,而且还在增长。 如果这对我来说不是遗产,我不知道什么能让我满意。 那应该够了。

史密斯: 够了吗?

斯特恩:哦,我们不知道。 我会在治疗中提出来,我们会发现的。 (笑声)它必须足够。 它必须足够。 它有什么好处,它为众多广播公司创造了作品。 我的同事广播员会对我说:“你知道我怎么会听到女人说,'哦,她不是女人的朋友,她会攻击其他女人?'”对我来说,我的广播员们说,“哦,你是一个叛徒。你怎么能去卫星广播?你为什么不呢,等等等等等等等等? 我走了,“因为我也为你创造了工作,你就是白痴。” (笑)我的意思是,你在说什么? 还有更多的工作场所。 这是一件好事。 现在,它已经成熟,我喜欢它。 因此,在这里工作是一项梦想的工作。 但在两年内我必须做出这个决定,我会离开吗? 我不知道。 我不知道会发生什么。 老实说,我不了解自己。 我不知道我真的可以相信这个节目的质量。 从那时起两年后,我会在那时有效吗? 我不知道。 我真的应该考虑一下。          


欲了解更多信息:

  • 霍华德斯特恩(Simon&Schuster)的 ,精装版和电子书格式,可通过


由Gabriel Falcon制作。